Before this essay, I will preface: I extremely highly supremely doubt your salvation status depends on your beliefs on the exact nature of God. I can’t emphasize this enough: God cares about where your heart is with him, not about your exact views on how the cosmos is structured.

In other words, he wants us to be trying our best to follow the commandments outlined in the scriptures, not be endlessly arguing with each other about the exact nature of God.

Clearing Misconceptions

My view on Jesus is simply what the scriptures tell us: Jesus is the only begotten son of God (John 3:16, Matthew 16:16, 1 John 4:14-15) and Jesus is the creator of the world (Mosiah 3:8, Hebrews 1:2, Moses 1:33). We can only gain salvation through Jesus (2 Nephi 2:6–8, John 14:6, Acts 4:12, 2 Nephi 31:21, Mosiah 3:17, Alma 38:9), because he bore our sins (Alma 11:40, Isaiah 53:4–5, 1 Peter 2:24, 1 Corinthians 15:3, Mosiah 14:4–5, Alma 7:11–13, Jacob 4:11) and overcame death for all (1 Corinthians 15:20–22, Revelation 1:18, 2 Timothy 1:10, Hebrews 2:14, 2 Nephi 9:6–7, Mosiah 16:7–8, Helaman 14:15–17).

The relationship between Jesus Christ and God the Father is as follows: God the Father, Jesus Christ, and the Holy Ghost form the Godhead (Acts 17:29, Romans 1:20), and are all perfectly one in purpose, glory, and will. In a sense, you might say that there are two Gods – the Father and the Son, with the Father being higher since Jesus is subordinate to God the Father – however, in practice, there is only one God, since a “god” is a divine entity that we worship, and the figure in heaven that we worship and address our prayers to is God the Father (thus, prayers are opened by saying “dear Heavenly Father”). This is because if you are worshipping the Father you must also be worshipping the Son and vice versa, since they are one in purpose and glory and they glorify each other, and also because worship of the Father must necessarily be through the Son, since the only way to the Father is through the Son (John 5:23, John 14:6, Ephesians 2:18, John 1:18). Accordingly, prayers should be closed in the name of Jesus Christ, because Christ is our mediator and advocate with the Father.

We know that we worship God the Father because the aim of Jesus’s mortal ministry was to bring us to follow and worship the Father, and Jesus clearly said that He gives His glory to the Father (Luke 18:19, John 4:21–23, John 20:17, John 7:16-18, John 8:49-50).

Luke 18:19
19 And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? none is good, save one, that is, God.

John 7:16-18
16 Jesus answered them, and said, My doctrine is not mine, but his that sent me.
17 If any man will do his will, he shall know of the doctrine, whether it be of God, or whether I speak of myself.
18 He that speaketh of himself seeketh his own glory: but he that seeketh his glory that sent him, the same is true, and no unrighteousness is in him.

John 8:49-50
49 Jesus answered, I have not a devil; but I honour my Father, and ye do dishonour me.
50 And I seek not mine own glory: there is one that seeketh and judgeth.

To some degree, this debate is all confused because of the failings of the English language. A more correct way to say things is that we only have one “God” (The Father) and one “Godly Intercessor” (The Son). But there is no English word for “Godly Intercessor”, and if you say that Jesus is merely “The Intercessor”, that doesn’t really sit right because it feels like in doing so you are rejecting Jesus’s divinity and omnipotence. Which unfortunately makes discussion on this topic require very careful wording to not make people offended on behalf of Jesus. Because of the failings of the language, I usually just say that Jesus is God and also that God the Father is God.

1 Timothy 2:5
5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;

1 Corinthians 8:6
6 But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.

The consequence of this theology can be seen in how we pray: Our prayers start by addressing God, “Dear Heavenly Father”, but end by saying “In the Name of Jesus Christ”. If we *truly* believed in multiple Gods, there would be multiple entities at the start of the prayer “Dear God A and God B”, or we would have separate prayers for each God. On the other hand, addressing God at the start of the prayer is still not enough – we also must end our prayer in the name of Christ for the prayer to have the desired effect – because the only way to the Father is through the Son.

But this is all somewhat just semantics. The main object of this essay is to prove that God the Father is distinct from the Son, Jesus Christ, via the scriptures.

And as a side note, my theology here does not contradict the Trinity or the Nicene Creed, since I too believe that Jesus is of the same substance as God the Father. How could he not, if he is the son of God the Father? Unfortunately, conversations on the trinity are annoying because modern Christianity (churchianity) has been trying to change the definition of the Trinity to instead say that Jesus is the same as God the Father (Practical Modalism). This actually contradicts how the Trinity was originally conceived, which is that Jesus is a different person from God the Father but of the same substance. I discuss this more in The Trinity and the Nicene Creed are Misunderstood.

Scriptures proving Jesus is distinct from God the Father

Jesus describes himself as the intercessor between man and God the Father, rather than he himself being God the Father (1 Timothy 2:5, John 14:6, Romans 8:34, Hebrews 7:25, 1 John 2:1).

We can only know God the Father through Jesus (John 14:6, Ephesians 2:18, John 1:18).

The scriptures say that God the Father sent Jesus, not that God came to us as Jesus – which only makes sense if Jesus is somewhat distinct from God the Father (John 17:3, John 3:16–17, John 5:23–24, John 6:38, John 8:42).

Jesus addresses God the Father as if God the Father is a separate person (John 3:16, John 3:35, John 5:22-23, John 8:17-18, John 14:28, Mark 13:32, Matthew 26:39, 1 John 4:9-10 ).

God the Father made the world through Jesus – again, implying that Jesus is a separate person (Hebrews 1:1–2, Ephesians 3:9).

Jesus sits on the right hand of God the Father – meaning he is not God the Father himself (Mark 16:19, Acts 7:55–56, Romans 8:34, Ephesians 1:20, Colossians 3:1, Hebrews 10:12).

Jesus as the only begotten son of God the Father (not God the Father himself) (John 1:18, John 3:16, John 3:18, 1 John 4:9).

Another point worth mentioning: yes, there are scriptures that discuss how Jesus is one with the Father. However, the subsequent verses then tell us how Jesus’s disciples can become one with Jesus if they follow his commandments (John 17:20-26, John 14:20). Likewise, we also see that the Father is one with the word (scriptures), and his spirit is one with the water and blood (baptism and the atonement) in 1 John 5:7-8. Therefore, being one with God means being aligned with him.

The Book of Revelation

Revelation 1:5 – Says that Jesus Christ is “the faithful witness”. But how could Jesus Christ be a witness of God, if Jesus Christ is literally the same being as God the Father?

Revelation 1:6 – “And [Christ] hath made us kings and priests unto God and his Father;” This is another scripture which implies Christ is separate from God the Father.

Revelation 2:18 – “unto the angel of the church in Thyatira write; These things saith the Son of God, who hath his eyes like unto a flame of fire, and his feet are like fine brass;” Why would Jesus describe himself as the Son of God, if he simply is God the Father?

Revelation 11:15 – “and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ;” To say that Christ is the Lord’s, as this scripture does, does not make sense is Jesus Christ is the same being as God the Father.

Revelation 12:10 – “I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ”; Again, the verbiage “His Christ” implies that Christ is different from God the Father.

Revelations 14:1 – “a Lamb stood on the mount Sion, and with him an hundred forty and four thousand, having his Father’s name written in their foreheads.” To say “his Father’s name” only makes sense if Christ actually has a father, which only is possible if Christ came from the Father, which only is conceivable if Christ is different from God the Father (if a mystery is “impossible to comprehend” that is code for the mystery not being actually true).

We are not saved by our knowledge, and instead are saved by being pure and holy and following God

God saves us if our hearts are in alignment with him, not because we deserve to be saved through works, nor simply by faith (faith without works is dead – James 2:17-20). To align our hearts with God we have to try our best to follow the commandments.

However, modern preachers don’t say this because they don’t want to offend people who don’t follow the commandments, since an offended congregation won’t give a preacher money. Therefore, they overly emphasize the faith part (hyper grace), and don’t even tell people the commandments (many aren’t even taught that premarital sex is against biblical teaching).

As a result, they teach that having the EXACT RIGHT knowledge of God is what saves us – not our heart posture or attempts to overcome sin. Hence, the obsession with impossible to understand ideas regarding God, and the bloodthirsty desire to cut down anyone who misstates the role of Christ in even minuscule ways.

This doctrine takes modern Christianity to dark places. The divorce rate of normal Christians is 51% but for Mormons is 7%. Modern Christians actually have a higher divorce rate than all other religions including atheism. But of course, they don’t worry about this because they think that having exactly the right view of the trinity forgives them for overall being more wicked than even the unbelievers.

If Modern Christians are trying even less to follow the commandments than even non believers, God isn’t going to be like “it is completely fine that you aren’t trying to follow my scriptures whatsoever, because at least you have a super accurate view of the Godhead”. God is actually going to say: your having exactly correct views of doctrine was vastly less important than your attempts to follow said doctrine. Since you have made no attempt to follow my doctrine, then you can’t truly call me your Lord.

Sorry for the hate here (lol), but Christians have attempted to exclude me from sports teams, speech and debate clubs, robotics clubs, private schools, and even online forums because they think that my views go against the Trinity (even though they don’t, as explained in The Trinity and the Nicene Creed are Misunderstood). I am just so done with being lectured about how I am a terrible person for my beliefs when 1) my beliefs are actually more supported by the scriptures; 2) your status with God depends on your heart posture with him, not your having an exactly correct knowledge of religion (see Aligning our Hearts with God).

God doesn’t tell us much about himself in the scriptures, but gives us a vast amount of commandments

· We don’t truly know the name of God.
· We don’t know (exactly) what his face looks like.
· If Jesus actually is somehow magically the same as God the Father, we still don’t grasp how it actually works (seeing there are no scriptures on the topic).
· We don’t know many other things about our family in heaven, such as whether a heavenly mother exists (I don’t think there are any scriptures about this at all), or exactly how our souls were formed.
· What we will do in heaven?
· We don’t entirely understand God’s relationship with Satan.
· We don’t (truly) understand how the Atonement works or the mechanisms behind it.

However, we get a huge amount of commandments from God which I have written about in The Commandments, Hyper-Grace is Wrong and Following the Commandments / Works Matter, and Aligning our Hearts with God.

In my view, God purposely hasn’t told us about himself because he is worried about the exact type of thing that has already happened: people obsessing over having the exactly correct view of God’s nature to the exclusion of the commandments.

Translation Problems

As I outline below, much of the modern texts of the Bible (such as the NLT, NIV, NLV, and ESV) have been corrupted to make it seem like God the Father is the same being as Jesus Christ. Therefore, use the King James Version instead! For further context, I detail the scholarship behind why new versions are mistranslated more in Spiritual Warfare.

John 1:18

The original text of John 1:18 reads:
18 No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.

However, modern versions corrupt the text to make it say that Christ is himself God, rather than the only begotten son:

NIV Version
18 No one has ever seen God, but the one and only Son, who is himself God and[a] is in closest relationship with the Father, has made him known.

NLT Version
18 No one has ever seen God. But the unique One, who is himself God,[a] is near to the Father’s heart. He has revealed God to us.

Titus 2:13

As you can see in the below verses, a strategic subtraction of “our” and additional comma makes this verse sound as if it refers to just one deity rather than two.

Titus 2:13 KJV
13 Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ;

NIV Version
13 while we wait for the blessed hope—the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior, Jesus Christ,

* similar versions for the other new English translations.

2 Peter 1:1

In this verse, a strategic repositioning of the word “our” again makes it seem like it refers to only one deity in the newer translations.

2 Peter 1:1 KJV
1 Simon Peter, a servant and an apostle of Jesus Christ, to them that have obtained like precious faith with us through the righteousness of God and our Saviour Jesus Christ:

NIV Version
1 Simon Peter, a servant and apostle of Jesus Christ, to those who through the righteousness of our God and Savior Jesus Christ have received a faith as precious as ours:

* similar versions for the other new English translations.

Philippians 2:6

As you can see, the below changes make it seem like Jesus is the same entity as God rather than separate.

Philippians 2:6 kjv
6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:

NIV Version
Who, being in very nature God, did not consider equality with God something to be used to his own advantage;

* similar versions for the other new English translations.

In Summary

A huge amount of scriptures where Jesus describes his relationship with God the Father don’t make sense if we assume Jesus is the same as God the Father. I will go so far as to say that almost all scriptures where Jesus references God the Father don’t make sense if we believe Jesus is the same as God the Father.

Therefore, instead I will align my views with exactly what an extremely large amount of scriptures say: Jesus is not the same as God the Father, because he is the only begotten Son of God and the mediator between God the Father and man.

Even if (by some miracle) Jesus actually was the same being as God the Father, I highly doubt that I would lose my salvation status for believing they are different, because: 1) basically the entire New Testament implies Jesus is separate from the Father, and if this is false and it was important to not believe this, then I would expect the Book of Revelation to clarify this doctrine. Instead, the Book of Revelation also implies that Jesus is separate from God the Father. And 2), I extremely highly supremely doubt your salvation status depends on your beliefs on the exact nature of God, since the scriptures say that we need to be righteous and meek and charitable to be saved, not that we have to have an extremely correct knowledge of religion to be saved.

That said, it is important to realize that Jesus is your Savior and that it is only through Him that you are saved, since this is key to our accessing Christ’s transformative grace through His atonement (as discussed in The Atonement as a Blood Transfusion).

Thanks for reading, and I hope you have a wonderful day!